Inaccuracies & Questions

[scorpion]

Post any inaccuracies you are concerned with, or any questions about the game in this thread.

[Aegis]

Wheres dat sexy scorp map at?

[scorpion]

Wheres dat sexy scorp map at?

It's a work in progress, although i have the bulk of it colored in, i have to go back and adjust a few boarders so that they're as close to accurate as I can make them. It takes a steady hand so its taking a bit.

[Serenissima]

When the stats are updated and finished, do tell. I know we discussed adding the Venetian ones.

[scorpion]

When the stats are updated and finished, do tell. I know we discussed adding the Venetian ones.

Will do, im working on finalizing those as well. Will post the player ones first, and npc ones later on before the game starts.

[Huojin]

What's the criteria for "vassal"? For example, Charles is directly Count of Anjou and Maine, King of Albania, and direct ruler of Corfu. Achaea should obviously be listed, but there seems no reason for the others to be.

This seems to be a theme throughout, like the Kingdom of Jerusalem and Cyprus being listed as a vassal.

EDIT:

Some other inaccuracies, by the way.

Turns out I'm also overlord of the Duchy of Athens as well as Achaea.

Apparently Euboea/Negroponte is not under Venetian rule or control. They have a trading post and financial concessions, apparently, but certainly not full control or vassalisation.

I also don't quite follow the reasons for troop levels being as they are. They seem wildly disproportionate?

[scorpion]

What's the criteria for "vassal"? For example, Charles is directly Count of Anjou and Maine, King of Albania, and direct ruler of Corfu. Achaea should obviously be listed, but there seems no reason for the others to be.

This seems to be a theme throughout, like the Kingdom of Jerusalem and Cyprus being listed as a vassal.

EDIT:

Some other inaccuracies, by the way.

Turns out I'm also overlord of the Duchy of Athens as well as Achaea.

Apparently Euboea/Negroponte is not under Venetian rule or control. They have a trading post and financial concessions, apparently, but certainly not full control or vassalisation.

I also don't quite follow the reasons for troop levels being as they are. They seem wildly disproportionate?

Will do further reading, and fix the stats regarding vassel states. As far as units go, they are not represented like a standard bop. At this time all units listed are a part of a single army for each faction. (Represented on the map as a coat of arms). Players can split their forces however they like upon the first turn. If they want to cover ground, they may have a few smaller armies composed of fewer units. Or they may choose a large army to match other large armies in a decisive battle. If that doesn't answer your question, just elaborate a little more on what you meant so I can help.

[Serenissima]

Well, if we're nerfing Venice for history I'd better point out the same. :p

Northern Italy shouldn't really be in Holy Roman Empire colours - they're only nominally a part of it at this point, as Frederick II was the last emperor to exert significant influence over Italian politics. The Lombard Leagues over the past century have been successful in their aims. Which I'm aware means more stats are needed for the various powerful city-states, but I'm happy to help with that and going into my Renaissance books.

[scorpion]

Well I'll look into both of what you guys have brought forward tonight. It's going to push the start date for the game back a little most likely, but I'll do what I can to bring both of these to a conclusion that works for the game.

[Huojin]

Just a question on the cost/benefit of trading agreements - they cost 300 credits, but there's only 1 instance of earning more than +30 credits per turn (the exception being Venice and +50 from the Ilkhanate) from any given trade agreement. That would seem to suggest that in the best case scenario for most people it'll take 10 turns to break even. 6 for Venice-Ilkhanate-level deals, which is more reasonable, but still a little on the high side?

I'd assume this is because previously everyone made trade agreements with everyone else?

[scorpion]

Yes the reason it is so high is because in the past it'd be abused, and everyone would trade with everyone, even with their historical enemies at a time that wouldnt make sense. I can however lower the cost down to 200c so that it does not take ten turns for someone with a small return to gain the money back.

The give/return varies as well for each faction. For example the kingdom of sicily may have more to gain from a trade agreement with the mamalukes (silk road connection) vs someone like serbia. However serbia would obviously be a safer, more defendable trade route in the long run. So it's all pros vs cons.

[Huojin]

200 credits seems more reasonable - with a top-end 30c/turn return, you'd be looking at 7 turns to turn a profit. Although if we looked at the smallest amount gained (England +10 from Wales), that's still 20 turns. If you said 150 credits, it'd be a range of 5 to 15 turns, which sounds more reasonable in gameplay turns.

[scorpion]

200 credits seems more reasonable - with a top-end 30c/turn return, you'd be looking at 7 turns to turn a profit. Although if we looked at the smallest amount gained (England +10 from Wales), that's still 20 turns. If you said 150 credits, it'd be a range of 5 to 15 turns, which sounds more reasonable in gameplay turns.

Aye after giving it some thought, I'll bust it down to 150c.

[scorpion]

added trebozoid to the map, reduced the size of epirus from dejure Byzantine lands. fixed Venetian coastal holdings.

[Huojin]

Thanks scorp!

Not to uh, be obscenely picky, but this map shows the situation in Greece more accurately. I'm mainly looking at Morea, and the size of Byzantine and Venetian holdings there versus the Principality of Achaea.

I also think the extent of Venetian control in Dalmatia is less deep than depicted on the map. Their influence undoubtedly extends that far, but territorial control, less so. It also seems it's actually suzerainty over Ragusa, so maps of that republic might be indicative.

Oh, and as I previously indicated, the Duchy of Athens is my vassal too - its in their NPC stats, but not mine, so just wanted to check.

Otherwise things look good! Sorry to unload inaccuracies on you, just thought now might be better than later. The map is still really good :3